US Markets: Real-time Trading

[qitrader]

I am not sure if I would have continue to hold on the DP continuation around 817.7. But should be fun to watch and see how far it would have gone with the ATR stop. Again, this is a new setup for me and not comfortable trading it. Hope some of you advanced traders caught it and are still holding.

[Steve Griffiths]

Hi Guys

Although we have a valid and good looking Ts3 sell on the 3min ER2, see below, I "suspect" that this will not do well.............. why ?

The reason is that we are on the "day after" a big rally and these days are often small range sideways days. Also we have had some very profitable days recently, so I have a nasty feeling that today will not be a good day........... just the natural cyclical nature of trading.....

Steve

[stylist]

I think that the better way to use the stf as a filter is to use its black colour as a continuation to the last trend and not taking all trades
For example
STF blue then black = only long trades taken
STF red then black = only short trades taken
This will make the STF more laging but i believe it will help stay out of troubles and focus on the best setups
I didnt test it in real life its just an idea so i may be wrong

[Todd Morgan]

ER2 is definitely the one to be short today just from a relative strength standpoint....it's down .25% where everything else is basically flat. I keep shorting it on strength.

But in the back of my head I keep hearing the old phrase "never short a dull market." :D

We shall see.




Hi Guys

Although we have a valid and good looking Ts3 sell on the 3min ER2, see below, I "suspect" that this will not do well.............. why ?

The reason is that we are on the "day after" a big rally and these days are often small range sideways days. Also we have had some very profitable days recently, so I have a nasty feeling that today will not be a good day........... just the natural cyclical nature of trading.....

Steve

[Steve Griffiths]

Hi Guys

-1R on the last Ts3 sell, now +2.8R on this DP sell.........means +1.8R up overall .......:)

Steve

[pegasus5]

Here's one every MTP trader should have caught! :rolleyes: It's the ES DP on 2 minute chart..Perfect divergence indeed :D

[Todd Morgan]

I shoulda added that the ER2 is such a high beta market that if and when it turns and runs .... it's market that's looking to rip your face off.

But, of course everyone here knows that.
:D



ER2 is definitely the one to be short today just from a relative strength standpoint....it's down .25% where everything else is basically flat. I keep shorting it on strength.

But in the back of my head I keep hearing the old phrase "never short a dull market." :D

We shall see.

[qitrader]

We have a team of incredibly fast fingers taking those 1 min and 2 min trade setups. The setups caught me by surprise as I was napping through the entire session. HAHA.

Good job fast fingers!!!

[qitrader]

Potential trade here:

[Steve Griffiths]

not looking ideal as R/R is a little low...........

Steve

[qitrader]

True....I passed

[Lumer]

Hi there,

today I have found this one: like "you"!

TS3 on YM 5min: 50 % took on 2-3 profit target.. but now I follow it on 2min..

Best wishes

Luigi

[qitrader]

Steve,

Do you recommend having the major setups set to False or True in NT? I might just turn it off since it seems to overlap other signals. Or is it just a matter of personal choice?

thanks

[Steve Griffiths]

I just use the Intermediate..........

Steve

[pegasus5]

For those of you that actually showed up to trade Thursday, such as myself, not much happened till mid afternoon when the bulls decided to make a run. Still not much to go on unless you like playing "box breakouts", which I personally do, and was able to capture some of the move. But if you missed the upside, you should at least to have been thinking of Decision Point levels with divergence..Again nothing as "clear-cut" as we would like, but one that did interest me late in the day was ER (AB) 3 min where price made new intra-day high as it stalled out at the daily R1 -2mid pivot 819.70 (see chart). Good enough condition for me to consider the reversal setup. Though there was divergence in STF (not as clear cut), still enough to take the trade.

The cover was at either the opposing DP level or Daily PivMid 817.15. Either way, a late day profitable trade.

Very best in holiday blessings to all. :)
David

[Steve Griffiths]

Hi Guys,

Here is a good example of seeing the set-up on the 15min chart but moving down to the 5min for the actual trade entry ................

Steve

[pegasus5]

Steve,

There continues to be one problem that keeps nagging at me with signals that fire off on one platform such as Ninja Trader or E-Signal but DOES NOT fire off in TradeStation which I use. Your example today of YM 5min TS3 Buy Signal which you show displayed in Ninja Trader. If you take a look at my chart of YM 5 min in TradeStation, this same signal did not fire.

Very simple question: Why not? This happens all too often and was wondering why....Thanks

David

[Steve Griffiths]

Hi David,

Because the TS3 was on the 15min chart and not the 5min you have here ....

Thanks

Steve

[pegasus5]

Hi David,

Because the TS3 was on the 15min chart and not the 5min you have here ....

Thanks

Steve

OK, I see what you are saying but it seems as though Luigi in posting #762 traded the very same TS3 buy YM 5 min. It appears as though he is using E-Signal and his chart clearly displays the TS3 signal.

Would you happen to know why it fired in E-Sig on his and not in TS on mine?
As I said, this seems to happen often between ES and TS.

Your thoughts are greatly appreciated..David

[Steve Griffiths]

Hi David,

Because he had the MAJOR settings on, I normally suggest Intermediate for most trades.

I hope this helps ?

Thanks

Steve

[pegasus5]

Hi David,

Because he had the MAJOR settings on, I normally suggest Intermediate for most trades.

I hope this helps ?

Thanks

Steve

Thanks, that explains the difference. I have Major Setups turned to "false" in TS and when I turned it to "true" the TS3 signal displayed. On 3 & 5 min charts I have set to "false" as you suggest, so now I see the difference.

Thanks :)

[Steve Griffiths]

Thanks, that explains the difference. I have Major Setups turned to "false" in TS and when I turned it to "true" the TS3 signal displayed. On 3 & 5 min charts I have set to "false" as you suggest, so now I see the difference.

Thanks :)

No problem............. glad to help :)

Steve

[tar001]

is that a valid setup? it looks like its too far past the DP? also there are many DP,s and divergences on that 3 minute chart(that you are not showing but if you click on each pivot you will see them) as the market stair stepped its way up. I should know as I was stopped out of all of them.



For those of you that actually showed up to trade Thursday, such as myself, not much happened till mid afternoon when the bulls decided to make a run. Still not much to go on unless you like playing "box breakouts", which I personally do, and was able to capture some of the move. But if you missed the upside, you should at least to have been thinking of Decision Point levels with divergence..Again nothing as "clear-cut" as we would like, but one that did interest me late in the day was ER (AB) 3 min where price made new intra-day high as it stalled out at the daily R1 -2mid pivot 819.70 (see chart). Good enough condition for me to consider the reversal setup. Though there was divergence in STF (not as clear cut), still enough to take the trade.

The cover was at either the opposing DP level or Daily PivMid 817.15. Either way, a late day profitable trade.

Very best in holiday blessings to all. :)
David

[tar001]

see if this chart attaches?(not sure how to do it on here)




is that a valid setup? it looks like its too far past the DP? also there are many DP,s and divergences on that 3 minute chart(that you are not showing but if you click on each pivot you will see them) as the market stair stepped its way up. I should know as I was stopped out of all of them.

[AndyvB]

Did you check your Risk Reward??? Very important too!!!

is that a valid setup? it looks like its too far past the DP? also there are many DP,s and divergences on that 3 minute chart(that you are not showing but if you click on each pivot you will see them) as the market stair stepped its way up. I should know as I was stopped out of all of them.

[qitrader]

Friday was a tricky day for DPs. Here are a few setups that failed. Since I knew it was going to be a tough day, I remained very strict as to which setups to take. I waited for the best setup but end up getting stopped out once. I quit trading that day before the last DP setup which worked out. :(

First trade setup with a RR = 5

[qitrader]

This one I did not take since there was no divergence.

[qitrader]

This one was even trickier. It had clear swings, divergence but RR = 1.7. Also if you follow the 2+2, it would have kept you out.

[pegasus5]

is that a valid setup? it looks like its too far past the DP? also there are many DP,s and divergences on that 3 minute chart(that you are not showing but if you click on each pivot you will see them) as the market stair stepped its way up. I should know as I was stopped out of all of them.

Tar001,

Hear again are my comments regarding this DP and I'll try to make my thoughts a bit clearer.

But if you missed the upside, you should at least to have been thinking of Decision Point levels with divergence..Again nothing as "clear-cut" as we would like, but one that did interest me late in the day was ER (AB) 3 min where price made new intra-day high as it stalled out at the daily R1 -2mid pivot 819.70 (see chart). Good enough condition for me to consider the reversal setup. Though there was divergence in STF (not as clear cut), still enough to take the trade.

Yes this was not a textbook divergence, but some are a bit elongated rather than sharply acute. What really interested me in considering a reversal trade was that price reached the Daily R1-2Mid @ 819.70..the actual high was 819.90. Quite often predetermined R1, R2, R3 and S1, S2, S3 (resistance & support) levels tend to be levels where reversals do occur. One can view these levels as standard deviations from the main pivot line. Generally most price action is contained between + - 1.5 std dev, so this R1-2Mid pivot @ 819.70 is 1.5std dev, so I was looking for potential reversal in price.

As to calculating risk/reward : Entry 819.50 Stop 820.00 Risk 0.50
Price target 817.20 Reward 2.30

I have found that by combining S123 , R123..etc at DP levels increases the probability of successful trade outcome.

Hope this is a bit clearer and not more confusing...

I've added the chart again for the visual...

David

[qitrader]

Lastly, the final DP setup worked out. It was not clear on the 3min or the 5min (to my eyes, no clear swings). In theory, assuming we took all DP setups (whether they were ideal or not), we would have loss about 1.5R for the day. If you picked the best setups, we would be up just a little. In my case, I waited for the best setup but got stopped out for -1R. However, my position size was decreased to .5% and did not get hurt as much. I should have taken the last setup but it was not clear to me at the time so I pass.

[tar001]

interesting points, I wish esignal had the rolling pivots on their charts. I wonder if it is worth switch to Tradestation? how do you like them?



Tar001,

Hear again are my comments regarding this DP and I'll try to make my thoughts a bit clearer.

But if you missed the upside, you should at least to have been thinking of Decision Point levels with divergence..Again nothing as "clear-cut" as we would like, but one that did interest me late in the day was ER (AB) 3 min where price made new intra-day high as it stalled out at the daily R1 -2mid pivot 819.70 (see chart). Good enough condition for me to consider the reversal setup. Though there was divergence in STF (not as clear cut), still enough to take the trade.

Yes this was not a textbook divergence, but some are a bit elongated rather than sharply acute. What really interested me in considering a reversal trade was that price reached the Daily R1-2Mid @ 819.70..the actual high was 819.90. Quite often predetermined R1, R2, R3 and S1, S2, S3 (resistance & support) levels tend to be levels where reversals do occur. One can view these levels as standard deviations from the main pivot line. Generally most price action is contained between + - 1.5 std dev, so this R1-2Mid pivot @ 819.70 is 1.5std dev, so I was looking for potential reversal in price.

As to calculating risk/reward : Entry 819.50 Stop 820.00 Risk 0.50
Price target 817.20 Reward 2.30

I have found that by combining S123 , R123..etc at DP levels increases the probability of successful trade outcome.

Hope this is a bit clearer and not more confusing...

I've added the chart again for the visual...

David

[pegasus5]

Tar,

I find them very useful when planning potential trades based upon price action. These pivot levels "frame out" the daily & weekly levels of importance for me. When price action reaches any of these various levels AND there is an MTP signal, I sit up straight in my chair and take extra notice.


Good trading :)
David

[timo4sho]

Tar001,

Hear again are my comments regarding this DP and I'll try to make my thoughts a bit clearer.

But if you missed the upside, you should at least to have been thinking of Decision Point levels with divergence..Again nothing as "clear-cut" as we would like, but one that did interest me late in the day was ER (AB) 3 min where price made new intra-day high as it stalled out at the daily R1 -2mid pivot 819.70 (see chart). Good enough condition for me to consider the reversal setup. Though there was divergence in STF (not as clear cut), still enough to take the trade.

Yes this was not a textbook divergence, but some are a bit elongated rather than sharply acute. What really interested me in considering a reversal trade was that price reached the Daily R1-2Mid @ 819.70..the actual high was 819.90. Quite often predetermined R1, R2, R3 and S1, S2, S3 (resistance & support) levels tend to be levels where reversals do occur. One can view these levels as standard deviations from the main pivot line. Generally most price action is contained between + - 1.5 std dev, so this R1-2Mid pivot @ 819.70 is 1.5std dev, so I was looking for potential reversal in price.

As to calculating risk/reward : Entry 819.50 Stop 820.00 Risk 0.50
Price target 817.20 Reward 2.30

I have found that by combining S123 , R123..etc at DP levels increases the probability of successful trade outcome.

Hope this is a bit clearer and not more confusing...

I've added the chart again for the visual...

David


Hi David,

very interesting what you are saying here. I am also a TS8 user and I am wondering how you have your pivots set up in TS8? Would you mind telling me?

Thanks a lot and I hope you all have a GREAT EASTER!

[pegasus5]

Hi David,

very interesting what you are saying here. I am also a TS8 user and I am wondering how you have your pivots set up in TS8? Would you mind telling me?

Thanks a lot and I hope you all have a GREAT EASTER!

Timo,

I would be happy to discuss. Please check private messages as the use of these pivots is not directly related to MT Predictor and I do not want to mix the concepts in this Forum.

Best, David

[pegasus5]

interesting points, I wish esignal had the rolling pivots on their charts. I wonder if it is worth switch to Tradestation? how do you like them?

Tar,

Check private messages inbox.

[tar001]

thanks!! Happy Easter.


Tar,

Check private messages inbox.

[rrs]

Hi Tar,

David makes a very important point about the use of pivots and support and resistance levels in DP trading. In addition to using David's method, you may wish to consider using fibonacci retracement levels -- a tool that is built into many charting software packages.

Other types of support and resistance tool you may wish consider for independent confirmation of your trades will be the pivot levels based on price action (High, Low, Close) -- a concept that has been well tested and described in detail with real market examples in the book The Logical Trader by Mark Fisher. (Note:The pivots Fisher describes in his book is significantly different to the pivots you may have read about in other books)

As you may have noticed, Steve has already built in the occurence of divergence at DPs as a requirement for the main DP trade that he often highlights in his posting.

Having studied the relationship of DP and TS1,2,3 and 4 trades to a variety of other confirming indicators / filters, I have, as very conservative trader, come to appreciate the importance of the principle of confirmation in high probability trading, risk management and capital preservation.

Regardless of the method you ultimately decide to use, it is important to make sure that you apply them in a consistent manner.

Good luck in your trading.

Rama.

[pegasus5]

Happy Monday to All,

I wanted to show example of where the ER (AB) DP Level lined up with Daily S1 @ 814.70, but there was NO divergence in STF. For the more advanced traders amongst you this combination still would have provided a very low risk entry for a reversal back to the Main Daily Pivot @ 817.30 as initial target.

Since there was no divergence, it would not be considerd an "ideal" DP setup according to Steve's rules and I am not suggesting that anyone bend or break those established rules.

I am just showing example whereby a trader could supplement their analysis to determine a low-risk entry point using Pivots when there is no clear STF divergence.

Good Trading,

David

[d-day]

Happy Monday to All,

I wanted to show example of where the ER (AB) DP Level lined up with Daily S1 @ 814.70

Hi Pegasus,

Nice trade - from which bar did you project that DP? Also, what you are showing as Daily S1 I am showing as daily S2 - did you calculate your pivot points based off the truncated Globex session from friday, or did you base them on thursday's price action? I show S1 at 815.66 and S2 at 814.53.

Thank you,

D-Day

[pegasus5]

Hi Pegasus,

Nice trade - from which bar did you project that DP? Also, what you are showing as Daily S1 I am showing as daily S2 - did you calculate your pivot points based off the truncated Globex session from friday, or did you base them on thursday's price action? I show S1 at 815.66 and S2 at 814.53.

Thank you,

D-Day

Hey David,

Welcome back...I took DP level from 9:42 on 4/5 The Pivots are auto-generated daily and I believe they are calculated from previous session, so that would be thursday's action.

[Steve Griffiths]

Hi Guys,

So far this DP short is working out nicely..........

Steve

[Steve Griffiths]

Hi Guys,

Even without trying to use any DP for a profit target, the easier and simpler method of just using the ATRStop still would have made a nice profit of just over 3x the initial risk ..... :)

Steve

[qitrader]

Steve,

Which one was clearer, the DP from ER2 or YM based on the swings?

I would picked the ER2.

[pegasus5]

ER (AB) today was a good example of combining DP Divergence Analysis and Pivot Analysis to instill greater trade confidence when selecting which trades to consider. I had mentioned in one of my previous postings that most of the "normal" daily price action falls between +- 1.5 standard deviations around Main Pivot Point and that we can use this information to "frame-out" potential trade opportunities.

Today's Daily PP = 817.30 and today's price action oscillated between S1-814.70 and R1-819.40. What is most imposrtant to note is that there was one clear-cut DP short w/STF Divergence and one without divergence, and both occured at significant pivot levels (see chart).

So, we had a Standard DP Short with Divergence occuring at a "significant pivot" R1 which gives this trade setup a higher confidence rating and one that should be strongly considered at the Red Reversal bar.

As opposed to a less than ideal pivot reversal off of the S1 DP level where there was NO divergence in STF, so the decision could be to 1.) Buy at the DP / S1 pivot for those who may be more aggressive traders or 2.) Stand-Aside, as there was no STF divergence.

Good Trading,
David

[Steve Griffiths]

Hi Everybody,

Very boring day so far today :o the best excitement I can see for far is on the 3min NQ - please see below.

But not much looks that good so far today .........

Steve

[d-day]

But not much looks that good so far today .........

Steve


I don't know ... long at the open on the ES (opened right at DP on 3 minute chart and the DP happened to be right at yesterday's low) I'm flat now ... but right now we might be getting a DP short on the ER2 occurring right at M4 midpivot ... ER2 at 821.70 at the moment high was 822 with midpivot at 822.2 so not so bad so far ... waiting for confirmation ... I'd like to se ER2 tag 822.2 first but we don't always get what we want

[qitrader]

I got stopped out on the ER2 DP trade. Oh well.

[d-day]

I got stopped out on the ER2 DP trade. Oh well.


How did that happen? I'm short at 821.5 and stop is BE.

[qitrader]

1st Stopped out here. I thought it was one of those morning DPs with no divergence. Sometimes it works, other times will not. Should have looked at the NQ instead. Same setup on the NQ with no divergence

[qitrader]

2nd stopped out here. Both trades were based on a risk of 1% since I was going against the major trend on a higher timeframe. So the damage is minimal. Hopefully, I 'll get a good trade in the afternoon.

[Steve Griffiths]

The NQ is creeping lower............. slowly.........

As I said before, not a brilliant set-up, but has just reached the opposing DP level........

Steve

[Todd Morgan]

David,

Very nice contribution to the board. It certainly appears that pivot levels in combination with Steve's DP levels deserve much more study.

Thanks,
Todd



For those of you that actually showed up to trade Thursday, such as myself, not much happened till mid afternoon when the bulls decided to make a run. Still not much to go on unless you like playing "box breakouts", which I personally do, and was able to capture some of the move. But if you missed the upside, you should at least to have been thinking of Decision Point levels with divergence..Again nothing as "clear-cut" as we would like, but one that did interest me late in the day was ER (AB) 3 min where price made new intra-day high as it stalled out at the daily R1 -2mid pivot 819.70 (see chart). Good enough condition for me to consider the reversal setup. Though there was divergence in STF (not as clear cut), still enough to take the trade.

The cover was at either the opposing DP level or Daily PivMid 817.15. Either way, a late day profitable trade.

Very best in holiday blessings to all. :)
David

[Steve Griffiths]

David,

Very nice contribution to the board. It certainly appears that pivot levels in combination with Steve's DP levels deserve much more study.

Thanks,
Todd

Hi Guys,

I agree, these "natural" levels based on the prior days range can be good support/resistance zone, at least you know that all day-traders the world over know these levels and are "aware" of them, so they will naturally have an effect.

Steve

[qitrader]

Currently long ER2 819.6 on TS4 signal. Looks like I exhausted my memory so i can't post a screenshot. Good RR trade up till R2.

[pegasus5]

David,

Very nice contribution to the board. It certainly appears that pivot levels in combination with Steve's DP levels deserve much more study.

Thanks,
Todd

Thanks Todd,

Simple yet very powerful combination of analyses..:)

[d-day]

Currently long ER2 819.6 on TS4 signal. Looks like I exhausted my memory so i can't post a screenshot. Good RR trade up till R2.


I'm still short from 821.5. My stop is 820.6

[pegasus5]

Thanks Todd,

Simple yet very powerful combination of analyses..:)

Here is another good example of combining analyses..YM DP between S1 and R1 levels "Brillant Indeed"

[d-day]

I'm still short from 821.5. My stop is 820.6

I adjusted my ATR ratchet to 0 so my stop is 820.8 (ATR is 820.72 so I round away from the market). We'll see if I made a good decision or not to raise my stop.

[pegasus5]

I'm currently long YM from S1...with stop just below low of day

[qitrader]

Day

You can move to the 5min instead of using the 3min ATR stop to trail your short. Just another idea so you won't have to be changing settings in between trades. I'm still holding but it doesn't look too good. I might even take my small loss or break even.

[qitrader]

Long again on TS3 off the 5min. Hope this time I can recover from the morning session.

[Steve Griffiths]

Hi Guys,

I am still very wary about the long side, mainly because of the daily position and the 15min Charts which seem to be finding DP resistance. see below.

Steve

[qitrader]

Good heads up. I started to move my stops if it doesn't work out. I feel like Rocky. I keep taking those small jabs from Mr. Market. Hopefully I can connect a punch and send a KO :)

[Matt Bowen]

Not a great morning... but still found some profit from the short side, I've been screwing around on this Ninja Trader simulator and it's Very Nice :) I may have to open an account here, this is very easy to use!!! I don't know that I'll leave Open-E-Cry, but Ninja Trader has definitely got my attention.

[qitrader]

Rough day. But i was able to cut down my loss to half holding through the 5min TS1 for a few hours. Keeping loses small during hard periods is good trading for me. Tomorrow is a new day.

update: -.5R for the day from -2R

[Steve Griffiths]

Hi Guys,

I know I don't like the 1min charts, but there were some nice ABC's earlier today.............

Steve

[qitrader]

I think I missed a D-Day pattern on YM and ER2. Hope some of you caught the continuation flags pattern. :D

[Steve Griffiths]

Yep, the bear falgs on the 3min chart were actually ABC's on the 1min, see below.......... :)

Steve

[qitrader]

Yep, it takes lots of practice and experience to be able to switch timeframes like that and catch the BIG FISH.

[Steve Griffiths]

Yep, I am glad that I have not wasted the last 20 years looking at all these charts day afater day ................. ;)

But seriously, I teach that the best "corrections" are ABC's and a "Flag" is just a minor correction, so it does not take a big leap to realise that "if" you get a flag on the 3 and 5min charts that "maybe" it is good idea to quickly flick to the shorter term (1min) charts to see if the unfolding flag has a "lesser degree" ABC pattern.

"If" it does, then it is a good low risk entry point...........

I hope this helps ?

Steve

[Steve Griffiths]

In NinjaTrader it is very easy to quickly change time frames on the current chart

[qitrader]

That is too slow for me Steve. :) I am requesting Hotkeys in NT to allow to switch between timeframes quickier with a few keyboard press.

[Steve Griffiths]

OK, I agree hot keys would be quicker, but as it is I can do this in 1-3 seconds ............

BTW, the ER2 TS3 short on the 1min chart did not trigger for 8 bars, that was 8 whole minutes to get sorted and prepare the trade........

Yes, some are too quick and we all miss, but I find that the best ones are the ones that give us the "time", like the ER2 to get sorted........ here 8 mins after the 1min signal and the trade entry was OK.

Steve

[d-day]

The question I have is this: is the TS2 on the ES 3 minute just the A of a larger ABC correction that should carry up to the 38-50% retrace from the HOD to the LOD?

S1 (approx. 1452) is smack dab in the middle of those two levels and should offer stiff resistance if we trade back that high.

[d-day]

The question I have is this: is the TS2 on the ES 3 minute just the A of a larger ABC correction


Could be ... I took profits when we bounced on the 61.8 retrace of the LOD to the reaction high.

[d-day]

The question I have is this: is the TS2 on the ES 3 minute just the A of a larger ABC correction that should carry up to the 38-50% retrace from the HOD to the LOD?

S1 (approx. 1452) is smack dab in the middle of those two levels and should offer stiff resistance if we trade back that high.


Well, not bad for an amateur ... should this trade work I'll be shooting for the DP above the first WPT with eye at stopping and reversing to long at that point (assuming oscillator divergence).

[qitrader]

Steve,

Then your 2+2 would not be used in this situation, am I correct? I think the key is just to be able to find those trades that will yield the multiple R's. But again, you provide rules to help newbies stick to a plan.

[d-day]

Well, not bad for an amateur ... should this trade work I'll be shooting for the DP above the first WPT with eye at stopping and reversing to long at that point (assuming oscillator divergence).

DP is now below revised WPT (actually overlapping to lower)

[Steve Griffiths]

Steve,

Then your 2+2 would not be used in this situation, am I correct? I think the key is just to be able to find those trades that will yield the multiple R's. But again, you provide rules to help newbies stick to a plan.

Yep, this was defiantly an "advanced" trade, where some of the "standard" guidelines for the beginning traders were bent slightly :)

Steve

[d-day]

Yep, this was defiantly an "advanced" trade, where some of the "standard" guidelines for the beginning traders were bent slightly :)

Steve

Well, do your professionally trained "advanced" eyes see anything to tell you whether or not these TS3's are going to get in gear to the downside anytime soon? lol

[Steve Griffiths]

Hi David,

I would be wary of any sells just yet, as selling after such a big fall is not that reliable as the Bears have already had their fun, so profit taking will produce a natural rally.

Personally I like to get in early, and NOT after any big move has already happened........

Just my 2c'c worth..... but I have seen this happen a lot of times over the years ;)

Steve

[Steve Griffiths]

As a PS...........

See also we are rallying off a 15min DP support zone on the YM - adding strength to this rally - no wonder the 3mins sell are failing.............

I have talked about this "advanced" experience of using larger degree support/resistance zones before - so I hope it should be familiar to some of you ?

Steve

[Todd Morgan]

Careful guys...Fed minutes dead ahead. Could get a little whippy and trippy

[ClaphamTrader]

Careful guys...Fed minutes dead ahead. Could get a little whippy and trippy

Certainly did!
I know they say you should trade without emotions, but don't you just love when you're facing the right way with the market!:D

Just wonering now if it will do the old ABC after the Fed minutes and break the low of the last dip.
If so I'm adding to my shorts.

19:42 Update: - Low broken! ...but at DP at the moment. If teh DP fails I think it'll drop nicely.

[qitrader]

Sometimes, one has to bet in order to win. Yes, the setup was ahead of FED meeting but I took a chance and was willing to lose 2%. I took the abc short around 155pm and then double up (pyramid) on famous "D-day" pattern (flag) and exited at DP for a nice +10R trade. After so many small losses, today was the day to send a KO back to the market. :D

[scooper]

Hi

I took the TS1 sell on the 5 min Russell (AB) that appeared at 2035pm (UK time) and then stopped out -1R next bar. Re-entry at 2050pm on second attempt and same again!

Pivot high taken out now so setup has gone from chart but can be seen in bar replay mode in esignal.

On reflection it looks like the ABC swing was not good so just inexperience taking me in for a whopping I think.

Did everyone else pass on this because the swings were not so clean?

Cheers

[tombtrader]

Hi Scooper,

For me, this is the hardest part of trading MTP, re-entering immediately after being stopped. I need to average about 2.2R per trade to break-even so it creates a lot of mental preasure.

My way of defense against getting wacked is to qualify the trade better.

I did not take this trade for the following reasosns:
1. Big rally from lows after good DIVERGENCE on oscillators and DP ,
2. Too late in the day to trade off a 5 minute chart - traders squaring away for the close.

Hope this helps

[tombtrader]

Hi Scooper,

For me, this is the hardest part of trading MTP, re-entering immediately after being stopped. I need to average about 2.5R per winning trade to break-even so it creates a lot of mental preasure.

My way of defense against getting wacked is to qualify the trade better.

I did not take this trade for the following reasosns:
1. Big rally from lows after good DIVERGENCE on oscillators and DP and there was no sign the rally was over ,
2. Too late in the day to trade off a 5 minute chart - traders squaring away for the close.

Hope this helps

[scooper]

Thanks TT,

FYI.....I looked at the data files in MTP EOD afterwards and at the same time I entered....the 3 min data file showed a wave 3 up in progress!!! with my entry point being at min wave 3 target. So I stepped in front of that wave 3 which was going to be tricky.

I saw but decided not to take the DP trade shown on the 5 min (although the divergence was good). If I had taken it then I may have got approx 2R on the board before losing 2R on that later setup.

I'm not into profit yet with MTP (still awaiting a first big profit actually to offset a lot of small losses) but I am learning every day and appreciate your input re late in the day trading etc.

On reflection I think the swings into the setup were not good and for that reason I should have passed but didn't. Maybe my head was thinking of the missed DP trade that I should have took!

I just read todays training report and realise I missed the great setup on the NQ 5 min. I was on an important errand so was not in the house to take the trade. Typical eh!

[Steve Griffiths]

Yep that 5min NQ sell was a real beauty - a nice +5.7R profit :)

Steve

[qitrader]

I agree with you tombtrader.The hardest part of trading is being able to come back after a series of consecutive losses. It happened to me in the last few days. It is frustrating and we just gotta continue to stay positive and focus on the next trade. I think the law of attraction applies here as well. If we keep thinking that the next trade will be a loss, then no matter what setup we take, it will still end up as a loss. This applies to any system whether it has positive expectancy or no expectancy at all. Just because we have a system that spits out automatic setups, does not make every trader here successful. I think there is more to it. IMO, one is the psychological make up that we each have and second is the experience we have gathered over the years trading.
The longer we trade, assuming we have followed our rules, the better the odds of beating this game. Again, this just my opinion.

[tombtrader]

For me, the DP trades are the way to go because there is no real adjustment of the level and I can use overbot/oversold indicators to back the trade.

Once Steve has these automated, I believe we will all be making more successful trades and not sitting there after being stopped out while the second or third try is a winner.

For me, if I have had two losers in a row, I need the third trade to be a winner to just break even. I know I should not look at the sequence because out of 100 trades 33 will win and you cannot know which 33 they will be, if you do sequencing simulations you know that the drawdown can be quite merciless (hence only risking 1% to 2% per trade). However, I have to fight human nature hard not to try to avoid losing trades. However, I STRONGLY believe, and I think all I have read from Steve also backs this, a trader must only CONSIDER an MTP setup and then make aq decision to trade or not based upon his setup criteria (which could be a number of different things). This is why MTP is not an automatable system.

[ClaphamTrader]

Entry 808.80
Stop 807.60

YM, ES and ER2 also bounced off S1 Pivots

14:55 Update - STOPPED for -1R :-(
--------------------------------------------------
15:00 - re-entered at new Entry 808.80 , Stop 807.30
I feel the S1 pivots and DP are providing quite good support here. We just need to pull away a bit upwards.
15:05 - and they're OFF !! :-)
Target is 814.80 for potentila +4R - DP from closing High,
but I haven't got a very high confidence it will reach it. Think today is likely to be another down day, but let's see what the market does.

[qitrader]

Clap

Me too. -1R on first try. Then reentered ER2 at 808.3. Good Job!!! Let's hope for a nice 3R or more. As I said, gotta bet to win. HEHEHE

[ClaphamTrader]

Clap

Me too. -1R on first try. Then reentered ER2 at 808.3. Good Job!!! Let's hope for a nice 3R or more. As I said, gotta bet to win. HEHEHE
Hi Qi,
Where did you get the 808.30 entry from?
I took the 14:57 blue bar as the 2nd signal to re-entry.
Did you go down to a lower timeframe?
What's yr target?

P.S. Looking fine at the moment, but don't like the way it reversed just under the mid-pivot line at 811.25. ES also did similar reversal just under mid-pivot.
I know Matt would probably say I'm getting to cerebral here, but I'm bringing my Stop up to b/even just in case.

[qitrader]

Well, this is an advanced trading strategy that I have and don't recommend it unless you are comfortable with it. But yes, I did move to a lower timeframe to catch a good fill. It was a risk that I was willing to take. Sometimes, I'm wrong when trying to enter without confirmation but I've been noticing alittle pattern in the lower timeframes and that got me to re-enter early. Again, the pattern was in my trading plan and I follow my rules.

Let's make some FAST MONEY

[ClaphamTrader]

Let's make some FAST MONEY
Well it's certainly looking good now!:D
811.25 mid-pivot line was sliced through nicely on the last bar. (Same for ES).

ATRstop now at 809.10 for a small profit.

15:33 - ATRstop at 809.80 but TS1 Sell formed on 3 min with 811.50 trigger so bringing my stop up to here to lock in arounjd +1.8R
15:42 - Stopped out at 811.50 for +1.8R
+ 0.8R up for the day for MTP DP Strategy :-)

[AndyvB]

What is interesting is that NQ hit the opposing DP area already..the others have not.

[Steve Griffiths]

ES just got there as well +3.2R ............:)

Steve

[scooper]

Hi

I have had a good trade of the 5 min ES DP setup. Just exited at Limit order at 1449.75 long from 1444.50.

I may run further but opposing DP is just above at 1450.50 so I was keen to bank a profit of just over 2R as I have to go out....

Out of interest do any of you trade a realtime position in more than one market at the same time?

The ES, AB and NQ all made similar moves but managing 2 realtime open trades seems a little scary!

Cheers

[qitrader]

I'm out. Banking a +5R. Another knockout punch!!!! Take that mr. market :p

Well, finish the day with +4R.

The reason for exiting ER2 was the DP on the 3min. However, it can easily go pass 814.8 but psychologically, I was not up for it. It takes alot of nerve of steel to do that. But not today for me.

GOOD TRADING ALL

[ClaphamTrader]

Hi

I have had a good trade of the 5 min ES DP setup. Just exited at Limit order at 1449.75 long from 1444.50.

I may run further but opposing DP is just above at 1450.50 so I was keen to bank a profit of just over 2R as I have to go out....

Out of interest do any of you trade a realtime position in more than one market at the same time?

The ES, AB and NQ all made similar moves but managing 2 realtime open trades seems a little scary!

Cheers
Generally I try to pick the best one if I get multiple signals. I passed on the ES as I already had a long thre for another strategy from the open (Opening Gap fill), but it looks like that was the better of the 2 this morning.:(
Oh well! I still managed to get +1R from the Opening Gap fill so it still works out OK so far.:p
Oh well

[ClaphamTrader]

I'm out. Banking a +5R. Another knockout punch!!!! Take that mr. market :p

Well, finish the day with +4R.

The reason for exiting ER2 was the DP on the 3min. However, it can easily go pass 814.8 but psychologically, I was not up for it. It takes alot of nerve of steel to do that. But not today for me.

GOOD TRADING ALL
Nicely managed Qi!
Out of interest, what was your strategy when the TS1 ER2 Sell triggered at 15:27? .. for educational purposes.. as I'm still not sure on best approach when valid opposing signals fire.

[d-day]

ES just got there as well +3.2R ............:)

Steve


No momentum divergence here, however. There is an DP traget outstanding above, the top of which is nearly coeval with R1. It's interesting to note that in some circles S1 is known as the "projected low" and R1 is known as the "projected high." I'll add to longs on a break that holds above the daily pivot. I think we might get to that DP above, or at least to the M3 midpivot.

[d-day]

No momentum divergence here, however. There is an DP traget outstanding above, the top of which is nearly coeval with R1. It's interesting to note that in some circles S1 is known as the "projected low" and R1 is known as the "projected high." I'll add to longs on a break that holds above the daily pivot. I think we might get to that DP above, or at least to the M3 midpivot.


No love above the pivot so far - I'm flat now.

[qitrader]

Clap,

I'm not familiar with the time zone. But are you refering to the TS2 and TS4 (3min) setup short on the ER2? I just avoided them based on price action. It might sound too subjective but hard to put it into words. Again, keep practicing and practicing and the ability to read the charts will come. I still have a long way to go as I'm still learning to pyramid and listening to my gut feeling. Since my winning ratio is about 30-40% (worst than playing heads or tails), might as well listen to my gut feeling. HEHE

[pegasus5]

Good Morning All,

This was my early YM trade off the S1 level + TS4 MTP Signal..Notice how price action is defined once again between S1 and Daily PP. Using ATR Stop kept you in for nice ride..Brillant!! :) :)

DDD

[ClaphamTrader]

Clap,

I'm not familiar with the time zone. But are you refering to the TS2 and TS4 (3min) setup short on the ER2? I just avoided them based on price action. It might sound too subjective but hard to put it into words. Again, keep practicing and practicing and the ability to read the charts will come. I still have a long way to go as I'm still learning to pyramid and listening to my gut feeling. Since my winning ratio is about 30-40% (worst than playing heads or tails), might as well listen to my gut feeling. HEHE
I'm in London sp +5hrs EST.
Guess I just stick with my plan for the moment. Sometimes it work in favour and othertimes I miss a larger move, but at least still in profit for today.
Thnx fo ryour reply.

[qitrader]

I happened to be looking at a lower timeframe and found a TS3 on the 2minutes. I had a feeling that it was consolidating before it explodes again. I did not enter but watched it. I'm amazed that it rocketed and now at Major DP level. Amazing!!!

ps. Very advanced trade setup so not recommended.

[d-day]

For educational purposes only ...

Steve,

There is right now a DP short set-up on the 3 minute YM with divergence. On the 5 minute chart, however, while price is at the DP, there is no divergence.

What is the correct thing to do? Enter the orders based on the minte chart and see if one is stopped into the trade? Or does one stand aside, since there is no divergence on teh 5 minute chart?

Thank you

[AndyvB]

DP also on the ES

[Todd Morgan]

Greetings MTP'ers,

I know that 1 min charts are too quick and manic for many people but they do yield some great trades at times due to the generally very small trigger bar.

An example is today's 1 min YM chart. After a quick -1R loss at 9:31PST another TS3 triggered at 9:35PST which just got ATR stopped at a +6.7 profit.



BTW: does anyone have any interest in a Real Time chat MTP group? PM me if you have any interest. Thx

[qitrader]

Nice trade. Is it the one at 1237p EST TS3? I didn't see a TS1, maybe the signal disappeared and is not recorded.

[pegasus5]

Today taught me a very valuable lesson. It's a lesson that I will not too soon forget. My personal strategy entails monitoring for valid signals from 3min & 5min charts, then tactically entering on 1min or tick charts. Entry prices tend to be improved by a few ticks using this strategy.

My earlier YM post described a long entry from TS4 signal @ 12509...A perfect entry near the very low of the day. What more can a trader ask for? Perhaps a sale near high of the day..indeed.

Ok now the lesson: I forgot to switch up to higher degree timeframe to manage the trade. Had I switched to the 5 min ATR Stop to manage trade, I would have made sale at 12603.

Now the sobering math:

Actual Entry 12509
Actual Sale 12540
Difference 31 ticks
Total Gain $1550

Had I switched to 5 min ATR Stop my sale would have been 12603. Yes, a HUGE difference of 94 ticks!!!

Calculated Gain would have been $4700

By not managing trade on proper timeframe which would have provided me the best opportunity to let profits run, it actually cost me $3150 in lost profit opportunity.

Quite the lesson learned today, and one I will not soon forget.

Here are the referenced charts...I read them and weep :(

[jjc]

Today taught me a very valuable lesson. It's a lesson that I will not too soon forget. My personal strategy entails monitoring for valid signals from 3min & 5min charts, then tactically entering on 1min or tick charts. Entry prices tend to be improved by a few ticks using this strategy.

My earlier YM post described a long entry from TS4 signal @ 12509...A perfect entry near the very low of the day. What more can a trader ask for? Perhaps a sale near high of the day..indeed.

Ok now the lesson: I forgot to switch up to higher degree timeframe to manage the trade. Had I switched to the 5 min ATR Stop to manage trade, I would have made sale at 12603.

Now the sobering math:

Actual Entry 12509
Actual Sale 12540
Difference 31 ticks
Total Gain $1550

Had I switched to 5 min ATR Stop my sale would have been 12603. Yes, a HUGE difference of 94 ticks!!!

Calculated Gain would have been $4700

By not managing trade on proper timeframe which would have provided me the best opportunity to let profits run, it actually cost me $3150 in lost profit opportunity.

Quite the lesson learned today, and one I will not soon forget.

Here are the referenced charts...I read them and weep :(

You're trading off a 1000 share chart - thats amazing cuz a 3000 share chart is equivalent to a 1 min chart. You thus are trading off nano minute charts.

You are truely my hero !

Happy Friday 13th tomorrow :)

j

[pegasus5]

jjc,

Not looking to be anybody's hero. I'm not sure what timeframes are equivalent to volume based charts nor do I really care, so long as they provide me ample trading opportunites, which they have in my experience. For the YM, my favorite is 2000v, as they provide very clear signals where often times "time charts" do not. Why that is, I do not know, but I have had very good success using them and will continue so long as they provide clear valid signals. (see attached chart)

Though I must admit that managing an open position is best accomplished with ATR Stop on 5 minute time frame, and that is what I was pointing out in my post.

But I guess that message didn't get through to you, only that I trade "nano minute" timeframes. Hopefully that message was clear to other members!!

If trading volume based charts are equivalent to trading "nano minutes" and they continue to help me become a successful trader, then ok, I am truly your hero.

I know I am my kids "super hero" :) :)

Good Trading,
David

[pegasus5]

You're trading off a 1000 share chart - thats amazing cuz a 3000 share chart is equivalent to a 1 min chart. You thus are trading off nano minute charts.

You are truely my hero !

Happy Friday 13th tomorrow :)

j

J,

Just as an example of differing signals from time charts and volume charts, please see below of YM 3 min versus YM 2000v charts, where valid signal fired on volume chart, but did not fire on time chart.

What difference does it make what type chart you use so long as you are profitable?

Best of trading success,
David

[d-day]

J,

Just as an example of differing signals from time charts and volume charts, please see below of YM 3 min versus YM 2000v charts, where valid signal fired on volume chart, but did not fire on time chart.

What difference does it make what type chart you use so long as you are profitable?

Best of trading success,
David


Hi Pegasus,

I don't think it matters to J what time frame you're trading on. I think that was the point of his original post.

Fight Triskadekophobia!

D-Day

[d-day]

If that Globex high spike gets a retest after the open and the market fails to take it out, then we might get a nice tasty DP short opportunity sometime this morning. On the 15 minute charts I see DP's in the ES, ER2, YM, and NQ that are not too far above the market. The ES actually touched its DP in the initial response to PPI data this morning.

Then again, it is Friday the 13th, so beware ... remember, Murphy was an optimist.

[qitrader]

Todd,

Check your PM

[d-day]

Steve,

It's a slow day, so I thought I'd ask a question I've asked several times, but I guess it keeps getting lost in the avalanche of activity here on the forum.

When evaluating DP Divergence set-ups, do you require that oscillator divergence to price exist only on the time frame one that one is trading, or do you also require confirmation on higher time frames? If so, what are the parameters for higher time fram to lower time frame for confirmation?

For example, if price is at a DP point and there is clear and present divergence on the 3 minute chart, but on the 5 minute chart momentum indicators are confirming the new price extreme, do you still take the trade based on the divergence present on the 3 minute chart? Or do you skip the trade because of the non-confirmation between time frames?

If you do require higher time frame confirmation of divergence, at what ratio to you look? In other words, I know that you wouldn't consult a weekly chart to confirm a daytrade on a 3 minute chart. But if you do require higher time frame divergence confirmation, what do you suggest is the proper ratio of time between which to look for this confirmation?

I know from conversations both via email and on the telephone with other MTP users, I'm not the only one who would like to hear your thoughts on this question.

Thank you,

D-Day

[rrs]

The 60 min chart of e-mini Russell 2000 with DP levels (taken from the last significant swing) seems to indicate some interesting points:

1) ER2 is now at a significant DP (823.50 to 820.50) that seems to be offering strong resistance to further upward price movement.

2) ER2 has made three unsuccessful attempts to move past this resistance level -- the last attempt being made today

3) If this DP holds, ER2 may move lower and find support at the opposing DP at 793.60 to 790 (projected from the last significant swing low). (There is minor support level at 805.60 to 803.60)

4) If the resistance at the current DP is overcome, the next DP (projected from the last minor swing high) appears to be at 826.10 to 323.90

The current situation may offer either a trend reversal or trend continuation trade setups that can be managed (on a lower time frame) according to the Advanced DP Trade setup guidelines Steve recently discussed in the Daily Reports.

Let us see what happens.

[pegasus5]

The 60 min chart of e-mini Russell 2000 with DP levels (taken from the last significant swing) seems to indicate some interesting points:

1) ER2 is now at a significant DP (823.50 to 820.50) that seems to be offering strong resistance to further upward price movement.

2) ER2 has made three unsuccessful attempts to move past this resistance level -- the last attempt being made today

3) If this DP holds, ER2 may move lower and find support at the opposing DP at 793.60 to 790 (projected from the last significant swing low). (There is minor support level at 805.60 to 803.60)

4) If the resistance at the current DP is overcome, the next DP (projected from the last minor swing high) appears to be at 826.10 to 323.90

The current situation may offer either a trend reversal or trend continuation trade setups that can be managed (on a lower time frame) according to the Advanced DP Trade setup guidelines Steve recently discussed in the Daily Reports.

Let us see what happens.

Very nice Rama :) Good to keep eye on bigger picture...One can easily become too myopic trading shorter timeframes and lose sight of larger degree.

Cheers, David

[qitrader]

I didn't even trade. Today is just chop after 2 great volatile days. Grab an icy pina colada and enjoy the toys we made in the last few days at the beach!!!

[AndyvB]

Wish there was a beach close by....still cool here...

[rrs]

Very nice Rama :) Good to keep eye on bigger picture...One can easily become too myopic trading shorter timeframes and lose sight of larger degree.

Cheers, David

Hi David,

I find it easier to trade the 15 min swings with 60 min chart providing the guidance. This combination also happens to fit in with the fact that the trend assessment time frame (60 min) being 4 times longer than the trading time frame (15 min) and it also suits my risk tolerance. (Last time I noticed a similar situation, ER2 moved several points lower. Unfortunately, I missed that move). Now, with Steve's elegant Trend Continuation / Reversal Strategy I am able to trade these setups with minimal risk.

I further investigated the pivot and DP combination you highlighted in several of your recent posts. In my testing I used the floor trader pivot that comes as a built-in indicator in the current version of TradeStation and found that this combination is indeed very powerful and offers excellent, high probability, low risk trades. Many thanks for sharing your knowledge and wisdom.

Regards,

Rama.

[brisvegas34]

There was a nice trade Europe AM on the CAC40 5 min (FCE J7-EEI) if you were around to catch it. DP nailed top and bottom of the early decline for 3.7R.

Sorry, unable to post image at the moment.

[pegasus5]

Hi David,

I find it easier to trade the 15 min swings with 60 min chart providing the guidance. This combination also happens to fit in with the fact that the trend assessment time frame (60 min) being 4 times longer than the trading time frame (15 min) and it also suits my risk tolerance. (Last time I noticed a similar situation, ER2 moved several points lower. Unfortunately, I missed that move). Now, with Steve's elegant Trend Continuation / Reversal Strategy I am able to trade these setups with minimal risk.

I further investigated the pivot and DP combination you highlighted in several of your recent posts. In my testing I used the floor trader pivot that comes as a built-in indicator in the current version of TradeStation and found that this combination is indeed very powerful and offers excellent, high probability, low risk trades. Many thanks for sharing your knowledge and wisdom.

Regards,

Rama.


Rama,

You are most welcome. Happy to hear you do indeed find them useful as I have. Since my initial postings highlighting the combined use of DP & PP, there are now many others utilizing this strategy and they to are finding lower risk and higher percentage setups.

Cheers!!

David

[qitrader]

I thought there weren't going to be any good setups today in the US equities market, but I was completely wrong. Here is a monster trade I paper traded as I was looking for a reversal setup back in the direction of the main trend. I know! I know! This is after the fact!! But maybe there could be a good lesson to learn here. My initial bias was that I was waiting for an ABC correction from yesterday's highs but it never unfolded. My reasoning is described below:

1) Strong trend from prior day (up/down with shallow retracements all day)
2) Clear intermediate swings
3) Stochastic fast oversold below 20
4) DP and Floor pivot support ( in this case, it was PP )
5) Reversal bar
6) RR > 2 (In this case, it was a 4R to opposing DP level. So it was a "go")

This setup was worth the small 2% risk as it produced +6R if trailed with 5min ATR STOP .

This is a setup for those who missed the powerful move yesterday. We can use the DP level to nail the low of the day in an attempt to catch the retracement back to its original trend. There was no oscillator divergence so it was a very advanced setup and you had to be willing to lose if wrong. If you don't, skip trade.

Key concept here is " YOUR TREND IS YOUR FRIEND and BE WILLING TO LOSE IF WRONG" If it doesn't work, then take the small loss and move on to the next trade. All I know is that I will be right once every three trials. When I connect the one, I am 100% sure I will have a huge trade.

Also IMO, there is not one correct way to trade the DP, but millions of ways as long as you keep your stops tight and let those winners run.

ps. Look at YM, ES, NQ, FDAX and they all did the same thing.

[rrs]

The 60 min chart of e-mini Russell 2000 with DP levels (taken from the last significant swing) seems to indicate some interesting points:

1) ER2 is now at a significant DP (823.50 to 820.50) that seems to be offering strong resistance to further upward price movement.

2) ER2 has made three unsuccessful attempts to move past this resistance level -- the last attempt being made today

3) If this DP holds, ER2 may move lower and find support at the opposing DP at 793.60 to 790 (projected from the last significant swing low). (There is minor support level at 805.60 to 803.60)

4) If the resistance at the current DP is overcome, the next DP (projected from the last minor swing high) appears to be at 826.10 to 323.90

The current situation may offer either a trend reversal or trend continuation trade setups that can be managed (on a lower time frame) according to the Advanced DP Trade setup guidelines Steve recently discussed in the Daily Reports.

Let us see what happens.

There is a typing error in this post that I overlooked:

The corrected sentence in the fourth point listed above should read as follows:

"If the resistance at the current DP is overcome, the next DP (projected from the last minor swing high) appears to be at 826.10 to 823.90"

(I mis-typed the the second number describing the next DP level). My apologies.

Rama.

[kbednar]

I thought there weren't going to be any good setups today in the US equities market, but I was completely wrong. Here is a monster trade I paper traded as I was looking for a reversal setup back in the direction of the main trend. I know! I know! This is after the fact!! But maybe there could be a good lesson to learn here. My initial bias was that I was waiting for an ABC correction from yesterday's highs but it never unfolded. My reasoning is described below:

1) Strong trend from prior day (up/down with shallow retracements all day)
2) Clear intermediate swings
3) Stochastic fast oversold below 20
4) DP and Floor pivot support ( in this case, it was PP )
5) Reversal bar
6) RR > 2 (In this case, it was a 4R to opposing DP level. So it was a "go")

This setup was worth the small 2% risk as it produced +6R if trailed with 5min ATR STOP .

This is a setup for those who missed the powerful move yesterday. We can use the DP level to nail the low of the day in an attempt to catch the retracement back to its original trend. There was no oscillator divergence so it was a very advanced setup and you had to be willing to lose if wrong. If you don't, skip trade.

Key concept here is " YOUR TREND IS YOUR FRIEND and BE WILLING TO LOSE IF WRONG" If it doesn't work, then take the small loss and move on to the next trade. All I know is that I will be right once every three trials. When I connect the one, I am 100% sure I will have a huge trade.

Also IMO, there is not one correct way to trade the DP, but millions of ways as long as you keep your stops tight and let those winners run.

ps. Look at YM, ES, NQ, FDAX and they all did the same thing.



In reading David's post and several posts from weeks back, it seems many traders are not sure when a trend day has a very good chance of developing. As we all know this is where the market will trend in one direction most of the day.

In this case traders are forever looking for a trade reversal to buck the trend. They believe that reversal and countertrend trade is right around the corner. Most of the time they would be right and the market will act normal and reverse at some point. That is, except on a trend day.

The tip off that I use in telling me that it may be a possible trend day is the 10:30 countertrend. Whatever direction the market is trading in at approximately 10:30 ( this allows for the first 30 minutes of orders on the books to be filled and then start a trend for the day), I expect a counter trend move of at least 60% of the swing. If I do not get that move, then I would be on the lookout for a possible trend day.

All may verify this by looking at the recent dates of 4/3, 4/5, 4/12, and 4/13.
Of course you can back test as far as you want and you will find that this technique is very accurate in keeping a trader on the right side of the market.
I do not look for countertrend trades on a trend day.

Does the market ever fool us, of course it does. But more often than not, this time technique will tip your hand to a trend day. How you enter the market is up to you.:)

Happy Trading:) :) :)
Ken

[jjc]

In reading David's post and several posts from weeks back, it seems many traders are not sure when a trend day has a very good chance of developing. As we all know this is where the market will trend in one direction most of the day.

In this case traders are forever looking for a trade reversal to buck the trend. They believe that reversal and countertrend trade is right around the corner. Most of the time they would be right and the market will act normal and reverse at some point. That is, except on a trend day.

The tip off that I use in telling me that it may be a possible trend day is the 10:30 countertrend. Whatever direction the market is trading in at approximately 10:30 ( this allows for the first 30 minutes of orders on the books to be filled and then start a trend for the day), I expect a counter trend move of at least 60% of the swing. If I do not get that move, then I would be on the lookout for a possible trend day.

All may verify this by looking at the recent dates of 4/3, 4/5, 4/12, and 4/13.
Of course you can back test as far as you want and you will find that this technique is very accurate in keeping a trader on the right side of the market.
I do not look for countertrend trades on a trend day.

Does the market ever fool us, of course it does. But more often than not, this time technique will tip your hand to a trend day. How you enter the market is up to you.:)

Happy Trading:) :) :)
Ken



http://hellotrader.com/2006/05/14/trading-in-the-zone/

j

[kbednar]

Hi J:

While most seasoned traders should be aware of the many "time to trade" zones ( there was 14 of them on that link), I equate them to duck hunting.......shoot enough ammo into the sky, and sooner or later you will hit something.

Having said that, I do keep 3 times in the back of my mind in a trading day. The first is the 10:30 CT that I outlined previously. To expound further and to avoid confusion utilizing MTP setups:

Many times there is a TS or DP trade within a few bars of the open or within the first 30 minutes. If I am in a position and I do not get that CT, I am now thinking a trend day and to let profits run. If I am not in a position, and I am thinking "trend day" I will look to enter the prevailing trend at the first set up. In this case, and only this scenerio, will I add the 1 minute chart to my screen to broaden my chances to enter with the trend.

The second time is the 2:00 CT if it sets up. If there is no 2:00 CT then I will look for a 3:00 CT if it sets up. These times are of course approximate and not set in stone. It is not uncommen in a "normal moving" day to have both countertrades. But as I said earlier, I do not take CT trades in a trend day.

In the mid 90's, I wrote a trend program that I followed religiously. Back then, the S&P moved 20+ points about 3-5 times a month. You DID NOT want to miss those days. I exited half my position after 4 points, and the other half at 20 points or MOC. A $6000 day was common. When the market range shrunk after year 2000, the program was no longer as effective ( like I said - it was a trend program ). There was simply not enough BIG winners to make up for all the small losers. The point of this short boring biography is that I tend to agree with Steve and Matt.....it is best to let the trade run, especially when you have an insight that it may be a "TREND DAY". On the majority of other days......trade how you feel comfortable using the WPT's and DP levels. Steve has made it easy to project targets.

Keeping in mind that there are no absolutes or guarantees in trading, the purpose of this post was to share ideas among MTP users on ways to help identify a "Trend Day".

Happy Trading:) :) :)
Ken

[Steve Griffiths]

Hi Ken,

A good post - thanks for your insight.........

Yep, that is the idea, use the ATRStop to run trades on a trending day, then the WPT's to bank profits slightly earlier on the choppy sideways days.............. :)

Steve

[qitrader]

Very good post

On the equities market for the month of April, we only had 4 trend days which traders should not have missed if they want to be up for the month---at least for myself. These 4 days out of 15 were the best to use the ATR stop instead of WPT targets. We still have 7 trading days left for the month of April so it is possible we may get 1-2 trend days again or none at all. The rest of the days will be choppy and sideways and the use of WPT targets are best. Within these days, we'll have a few really bad days and one needs to either not trade (u can miss the chance of a good trade) or minimize your losses as much as you can. The ability to change gears or adjust position size based on the type of day (being more aggressive on trend days, < 5% bet) is more an art than science. It cannot be taught in the books but can only be gained through experience.

[qitrader]

Hi All,

Anyone long ER2 from 831.6 or lower? Just wondering because it looks like a good continuation trade.

Careful with the DP shorts on the way up!!!

Trend is your friend

update: STOP at BE (831.5)

update2: Trailing with ATR stop or first WPT tgt

[ClaphamTrader]

Hi All,
Anyone long ER2 from 831.6 or lower? Just wondering because it looks like a good continuation trade.

Careful with the DP shorts on the way up!!!

Trend is your friend

update: STOP at BE (831.5)

update2: Trailing with ATR stop or first WPT tgt
Hi Qi,
I'm in:D
I got in at 831.40 on the 3 min chart
As it seems to be a nice slow up trending day I'm using your suggestion on using the 5 min ATR - now at 833.40 or +2.5R
A nice boring trade.
I have an alarm set at the Min Wave C, with Limit order at the Typ Wave C 840.10.
I'll let the 5 Min ATR keep it in check until then.

Note: the NQ and ES TS3s that fired at the same time have already reached their first WPTs.

[Steve Griffiths]

Hi Qi

I was looking at the NQ - nice profit of 5x initial risk here :)

Steve

[qitrader]

Well done all,

I got out too based on ATR stop

WOw, I should have taken the NQ instead. HAHAHA. But too late.

[Matt Bowen]

Hi Qi,
I'm in:D
I got in at 831.40 on the 3 min chart
As it seems to be a nice slow up trending day I'm using your suggestion on using the 5 min ATR - now at 833.40 or +2.5R
A nice boring trade.
I have an alarm set at the Min Wave C, with Limit order at the Typ Wave C 840.10.
I'll let the 5 Min ATR keep it in check until then.

Note: the NQ and ES TS3s that fired at the same time have already reached their first WPTs.


Hi CT...

You should just turn the rachet off like I do, this way you don't have to take the 5 minute ATR value.

[d-day]

Hi Qi

I was looking at the NQ - nice profit of 5x initial risk here :)

Steve


I never got the 3 minute signal on the NQ. I did get a TS2 buy on the 5 minute, but it never showed a blue reversal bar. After I reloaded the 3 minute NQ 4 or 5 times, it finally did give me a TS3 buy with reversal bar on the 10:24 bar.

It really is a shame that after all these years this is the best e-signal can do as far as consistancy of data between their various data servers.

[qitrader]

Matt,

You can also switch to a higher timeframe and trail from there if you think it is going higher. Makes things alittle easier. But looks like it actually hit the stop. Too many ways to make soup. Good trade

[tombtrader]

Big advantage of Ninjatrader is that you can use more than one data feed. You can even have duplicate charts off different feeds, eg eSig and IB.

Can hardly wait.


I never got the 3 minute signal on the NQ. I did get a TS2 buy on the 5 minute, but it never showed a blue reversal bar. After I reloaded the 3 minute NQ 4 or 5 times, it finally did give me a TS3 buy with reversal bar on the 10:24 bar.

It really is a shame that after all these years this is the best e-signal can do as far as consistancy of data between their various data servers.

[ClaphamTrader]

Matt,

You can also switch to a higher timeframe and trail from there if you think it is going higher. Makes things alittle easier. But looks like it actually hit the stop. Too many ways to make soup. Good trade
Qi & Matt,
Actually I've taken both your advice.
My rachet is at 0 and I've moved up to the 5 min ATR for the StopLoss level.

I'm still in on the ER2 Long Trade. My ATR (with Rachet=0) was still at 833.40.
11:05 bar low was 1 tick above at 833.50, so I'm still in at this stage.

Qi, what's rachet setting do you use?

3 min NQ TS2 and ER2 TS3 just fired although with RR<2, but hopefully this means we will have another leg higher.

[qitrader]

At the time of ER2 entry, all the US eminis were flashing "BUY BUY BUY" in market analyzer (NQ and ES, not YM). I quickly switched and decided to trade ER2. It was also testing R2 at the time so it was a good continuation trade. I hope noone tried to picked a top so you saved some money.

[qitrader]

CT,

I use the default settings but if I feel that mkt is very bullish, I will switch to a 10min ATR stop. If there is still enough power left, then I may use the 30min and hold overnight. Assuming that I would negate all other signals.

Have anyone experienced with this type of multiple timeframe trading?

The best trader would have probably held using the 30min ATR stop from the very low of 808.6 ER2 a few days ago. I hope to become like one some day. Letting those winners run is the key.

[Steve Griffiths]

Hi Everybody........

Brilliant ER2 DP long trade off the 2:33ESt low (3min chart)

almost 7x profit ............. :)

What a great day today - hope you all made the most of the great set-ups today ?

Steve

[Matt Bowen]

Absolutely phenomenal... what a day!!! A day like this can pay for two weeks of losing trades!!!

Wow, the NASDAQ and the DOW also triggered longs, the NAZ was stopped out and the DOW is still long... The Russell was a VERY NICE TRADE!!! and still going :)

I would close them out...after the cash market closes.

[qitrader]

Great!!!

I didn't see the DP but I did see a clear TS4 setup on ER2 and took the trade. Here is the chart. Still work out very well.

[tombtrader]

Hi Everybody........

Brilliant ER2 DP long trade off the 2:33ESt low (3min chart)

almost 7x profit ............. :)

What a great day today - hope you all made the most of the great set-ups today ?

Steve

I missed the DP too. eSignal version was not so clear and low did not touch DP.

Sure looking forward to Ninja version and automated DPs.

[Steve Griffiths]

The New NinjaTrader version is on its way :)

Steve

[Matt Bowen]

There was a lot of talk about this Russell 2000 trade being missed and I'm not sure how this was possible unless the trader was preoccupied or sleeping...

I mean a setup like the picture below is hard to not notice when the eSignal "triggered alert" pop-up is going off and you are getting an audible alert through your speakers.

This is just a piece of advice... because I know how a lot of day traders try to work during the day. Most of them bounce around from 1 minute to 3 minute to 5 minute back to a 120 tick chart and on and on... it's like watching an ADD (Attention Deficit Disorder) patient try and function without their antidepressants... You have to stop the INSANITY and get control. My advice is to have open only 3 minute charts and setup your alerts to scan whatever other time frames you want to be alerted on.

Why the 3 minute chart? There are two reasons:

First, I'm convinced beyond a shadow of a doubt that day trading anything less than a 3 minute chart is a complete waste of time... I've got years of proof to back this claim up. If you can trade a 1 minute chart and make a consistent living then GOD BLESS YOU because 99.5 % of the trading community cannot (Including anybody I know). I'm not saying it's impossible, but the odds are stacked way against you.

Second, The 3 minute chart will pick up 95% of all other setups on different time frames, yes it occasionally misses one here and there and that's life, you can't be everywhere at all times. The 3 minute chart is the best one that I have found to look at if I'm going to day trade. I like the 5 minute, but you will miss more trades looking at a 5 minute than you will looking at the 3 minute chart.

Remember, the scanner should be running in the background, so this is doing 90% of your work. Trust me, you need to relax and wait because when the action kicks in (and it will) it's like a hot LZ and you need to be ready, but if you are bouncing around looking for action you are going to miss trades and that is only going to add to your stress, the key here is to plan out the trade.

[kbednar]

Good morning all!

Just a quick and last follow up on the weekend posts concerning "Trend Days".

Yesterday was another good example of how a trader might have been thinking "Trend Day" ( until proven otherwise). The market opened up and stayed up. At approx. 10:30 am EST,give or take 15 minutes, there was no countertrend reversal of 60+ % of the days move. And also price was no where near taking out the previous close. And lo and behold , we get a TS long set-up at that time to help confirm.

Sometimes we just need a little edge over the thousands of traders who were trying to short yesterdays market.

Happy Trading :) :) :)

[rrs]

Good morning all!

Just a quick and last follow up on the weekend posts concerning "Trend Days".

Yesterday was another good example of how a trader might have been thinking "Trend Day" ( until proven otherwise). The market opened up and stayed up. At approx. 10:30 am EST,give or take 15 minutes, there was no countertrend reversal of 60+ % of the days move. And also price was no where near taking out the previous close. And lo and behold , we get a TS long set-up at that time to help confirm.

Sometimes we just need a little edge over the thousands of traders who were trying to short yesterdays market.

Happy Trading :) :) :)


Hi Ken,

I read your previous messages on trend days (messages 881 and 883).

1) The times you mention in your previous two messages, I am assuming, are Eastern Standard Time.

2) CT -- I am assuming this abbreviation refers to CounterTrend.

Am I correct in my assumptions?

Regards,

Rama.

[d-day]

Geez, doesn't that figure?!? Yesterday there's a great NQ long trade but it doesn't fire in my e-signal,so I miss that trade.

Today, a long NQ fires and I'm thinking, "Here I go, now I get mine."

Well, I got it all right. E-signal gave me the wrong trade!

Anyone else get clipped on this one?

[jjc]

Geez, doesn't that figure?!? Yesterday there's a great NQ long trade but it doesn't fire in my e-signal,so I miss that trade.

Today, a long NQ fires and I'm thinking, "Here I go, now I get mine."

Well, I got it all right. E-signal gave me the wrong trade!

Anyone else get clipped on this one?

D-Day

I got clipped too.

But hey, we'r keeping our losses small, right?


j

[stylist]

Yes i took it on the 3 min chart it was a perfect setup but the market has other plans

[Steve Griffiths]

Hi Guys

Today I was looking for DP sells as the market was more likely to sell off than continue higher...........

Steve

[Steve Griffiths]

Sorry, here is the chart

Steve

[qitrader]

Steve,

How about the YM DP short? My lunch bias made me missed it. I think that is a good excuse as I stick to my plan :) But I would trail using ATR stop. YM currently overbought on daily charts.

[kbednar]

Hi Ken,

I read your previous messages on trend days (messages 881 and 883).

1) The times you mention in your previous two messages, I am assuming, are Eastern Standard Time.

2) CT -- I am assuming this abbreviation refers to CounterTrend.

Am I correct in my assumptions?

Regards,

Rama.

Hi Rama:

Check your Private Messages.

Ken :) :) :)

[CapTech]

Hi Guys

Today I was looking for DP sells as the market was more likely to sell off than continue higher...........

Steve

Hey Steve I hope you are not asking us to be trading robots and act on everything you say and do. We do have minds although not superior to yours:) :) .........Jim

[Steve Griffiths]

Hi Jim,

Of course not ;) I was just adding my 2c worth from what I was saying I "thought" would unfold in the daily report.........

I am glad that you are all thinking for yourselves.......... Trading is a very personal thing and we all have our own individual styles and as such I do encourage you all to "think for yourselves"......... I just hope my input from time to time helps ?

Steve

PS, I think there are some great traders here on this Forum and I enjoy seeing what you are all up to ;)

[tombtrader]

Great 7R trade on ER2 using the new Range Bars in the new eSignal beta.

The 3 minute chart only made it about a 2R trade. What's more, for me, the Range Bar trade was cleaner and surer and I felt more confident of the trade. Of course, the shorter bars help.

[Steve Griffiths]

After a slow and dull start, this 5min YM TS3 buy came up

Just reached the first profit target :)

Steve

[d-day]

After a slow and dull start, this 5min YM TS3 buy came up

Just reached the first profit target :)

Steve

I don't understand why this is an approved MTP trade, yet the NQ long yesterday you said you would have skipped.

How about the DP short setting up on the YM right now - is there any reason I shouldn't take that trade?

[Steve Griffiths]

[QUOTE=David Day;8420]I don't understand why this is an approved MTP trade, yet the NQ long yesterday you said you would have skipped.[QUOTE]

Hi David.

A very good question ..................

Because today is very different from yesterday. Yesterday we on "the day after" a big move day so the odds were for a narrow range consolidation.

BUT, today we have moved on and the "consolation" has completed with an ABC (TS3) on the larger degree 15min chart, see below.

Hence considering the 5min Buy today would be preferable over the same set-up yesterday.............. In fact if anything today would be a good day to look to "run" any buys (particularly on the YM)

Do you see the difference ???

OK Advanced class over for today ;)

Steve

[d-day]

[QUOTE=David Day;8420]I don't understand why this is an approved MTP trade, yet the NQ long yesterday you said you would have skipped.[QUOTE]

Hi David.

A very good question ..................

Because today is very different from yesterday. Yesterday we on "the day after" a big move day so the odds were for a narrow range consolidation.

BUT, today we have moved on and the "consolation" has completed with an ABC (TS3) on the larger degree 15min chart, see below.

Hence considering the 5min Buy today would be preferable over the same set-up yesterday.............. In fact if anything today would be a good day to look to "run" any buys (particularly on the YM)

Do you see the difference ???

OK Advanced class over for today ;)

Steve

So what about the DP short set up on the 5 minute YM?

[Steve Griffiths]

In fact if anything today would be a good day to look to "run" any buys (particularly on the YM)

In other words the "larger degree" trend is Up on the YM, so what is the sensible choice - longs or shorts ??

Thanks

Steve

[jands]

Because today is very different from yesterday. Yesterday we on "the day after" a big move day so the odds were for a narrow range consolidation.

BUT, today we have moved on and the "consolation" has completed with an ABC (TS3) on the larger degree 15min chart, see below.

Hence considering the 5min Buy today would be preferable over the same set-up yesterday.............. In fact if anything today would be a good day to look to "run" any buys (particularly on the YM)

Do you see the difference ???

OK Advanced class over for today ;)

Steve

Hi Steve,

Thanks for the extra info.

I have a question from a different point of view. (And I did read your report today about stregth in the market).

I watched the makets all break their previous day's low plus being at overhead resistance. I was looking to short the market after they made some retracement in the morning (obviously not working out).

Is it just one of those days where my idea didn't work out or should I have considered something different? Any input?

Anyhow I should have changed my mind and just gone with the basic rules:rolleyes:

Thanks again,

Jim

[jjc]

Great 7R trade on ER2 using the new Range Bars in the new eSignal beta.

The 3 minute chart only made it about a 2R trade. What's more, for me, the Range Bar trade was cleaner and surer and I felt more confident of the trade. Of course, the shorter bars help.

Tombtrader

How did you get the range bars to print?

Esignal says the Esignal beta has not been released yet and therefore no range bars are available.

Thanks

j

[qitrader]

I missed the YM long setup but here is the trade I took at the end of the day. From a negative day, back to positive. Very happy of my comeback after 2 losing trades. It was a perfect ER2 DP short with divergence. I would have made more if I trail with ATR stop. :)

Lesson to be learned: Shoot for the monster trades , not for the quick scalps.

[tombtrader]

Tombtrader

How did you get the range bars to print?

Esignal says the Esignal beta has not been released yet and therefore no range bars are available.

Thanks

j

Go to the beta testers section of the file downloads, join and then you can download the beta.

To see the charts, just use "R" instead of the usual "T" or "V" for tick and volume charts. Find an "R" value that fits your style.

I was really desparate for the range bars as they change the world of trading. I use them in other chart packages.

[jjc]

Go to the beta testers section of the file downloads, join and then you can download the beta.


Thanks

j

[jjc]

Go to the beta testers section of the file downloads, join and then you can download the beta.

To see the charts, just use "R" instead of the usual "T" or "V" for tick and volume charts. Find an "R" value that fits your style.

I was really desparate for the range bars as they change the world of trading. I use them in other chart packages.


tombtrader

Have you had any problems with the known bugs in the beta?

j

[tombtrader]

A couple. Occaissionally, a bar is not the correct range. Probably less than 3% of the time.

My only beef is, and this goes for all types of bars, is that eSignal sometimess seems to buffer data and it comes out in a long burst of bars.

eSignal implementation does not fill gaps. Gaps are left as gaps.

Otherwise, they are very useable.

[Steve Griffiths]

Interesting how yesterdays high on the 15min ES chart was right at the DP level............

A chance to be short overnight ?

Steve

[Steve Griffiths]

A nice start to the day as the markets dropped right into the opposing DP level on the open :)

Steve

[tombtrader]

This was pinball trading using the DP and TS setups with range bars. Profits totalled 11.6R

[davidh]

Hi Tombtrader,
Not really familiar with range bars - could you tell me what one bar represents?
Thanks

[tombtrader]

Have a look at:

http://www.fibonaccitrader.com/HELP40/Range%20Bar/default.htm

It sets it out nicely

[davidh]

Thanks - looks interesting.

[Steve Griffiths]

This was pinball trading using the DP and TS setups with range bars. Profits totalled 11.6R

Brilliant a +11R profit is great trading - well done

Steve

[rrs]

The 60 min chart of e-mini Russell 2000 with DP levels (taken from the last significant swing) seems to indicate some interesting points:

1) ER2 is now at a significant DP (823.50 to 820.50) that seems to be offering strong resistance to further upward price movement.

2) ER2 has made three unsuccessful attempts to move past this resistance level -- the last attempt being made today

3) If this DP holds, ER2 may move lower and find support at the opposing DP at 793.60 to 790 (projected from the last significant swing low). (There is minor support level at 805.60 to 803.60)

4) If the resistance at the current DP is overcome, the next DP (projected from the last minor swing high) appears to be at 826.10 to 823.90

The current situation may offer either a trend reversal or trend continuation trade setups that can be managed (on a lower time frame) according to the Advanced DP Trade setup guidelines Steve recently discussed in the Daily Reports.

Let us see what happens.

Current ER2 60min chart shows some possibilities:

1) Current price bar appears to be closing below the current DP levels of 826.10 to 823.90

2) It is now at the preceeding DP level (highlighted in 04/13/2007 message -- 823.50 to 820.50) which it broke through at the start of the week

With overhead resistance at 823.90 and potential support at 820.50, it will be interesting to see where ER2 will be at the end of today.

If the support at 820.50 is broken, ER2 may find support at next DP level projected at 803.80 to 799.20

Rama.

[Steve Griffiths]

Hi Guys,

Looks like my "gut feeling" from today's report was correct, a gap up higher, but this was a "false" move and all the markets are droping now and are just drifting lower with no real patten.

Not a good market to look for trade set-ups in, so best to stand aside and wait until get get some nice "clear and clean" swings

Steve

[Steve Griffiths]

About the only light in an otherwise boring day has been the DP buy on the 3min NQ, below

But overall a very boring day today :(

Good job we had some brilliant trades earlier in the week :)

Steve

[Steve Griffiths]

Hi Everybody,

Interesting how the gap higher (in the ES) stopped right at the DP level (:) )

The only problem is the decline into the opposing DP target is painfully slooooow.........

Steve