Range Bars Versus Others

[tombtrader]

Here is the DAX this morning which gave > 10R using range bars. There was one re-entry after ATR stop out.

The same trades using 3 minute charts would have given less than 4R. Wish the Pic was better.

[qitrader]

Hi Tombtrader,

Nice finding. Since it is difficult to look at the screenshot, can you post the exact time and date when this trade triggered? It seems like the only reason why the RR for range bars is much larger than when using a 3min chart is due to the size of the actual reversal bar. The size of the range bars at the time of the reversal bar is smaller than the reversal bar on the 3 minute bar. Am I correct?

Also, I have a few questions regarding range bars:

1) how much time do you have to prepare for the trade?
2) How often do you get faked out using range bars compared to minute bars? Is it more so in minute bars?
3) How long does it take to complete a bar so you can quickly make a decision?

Thanks

[tombtrader]

First trade was at 9.03 exchange time, same as 3 minute.

Yes, range bar is smaller usually than 3 minute bars but because each bar is the same size, your number of contracts is always the same so there is no working out how many to trade. Prep time depends how fast the market is at the time, much as in minute bars. Many times I was late for trades on 3 minute bars when they closed on their low.

You get faked out MUCH LESS OFTEN than minute bars if you pick the correct range. Range depends partly on your style and partly on how smooth you want the charts to look.

Hope this is useful.

[qitrader]

Very helpful. Thanks

[jtrade]

Here is the DAX this morning which gave > 10R using range bars. There was one re-entry after ATR stop out.

The same trades using 3 minute charts would have given less than 4R. Wish the Pic was better.

tt - may I please ask which charting program you are using for range bars ?

I know of several traders who have left TradeStation just to be able to use range bars (going over to NeoTicker mainly, I think).

The argument for range bars makes complete sense to me.

J.

[tombtrader]

The new eSignal beta has Range Bars - this is currently the only package that runs MTP on Range Bars.

[jtrade]

The new eSignal beta has Range Bars - this is currently the only package that runs MTP on Range Bars.

Thanks, tt - I must say I have a LOT of resistance to going back to eSig....

J.

[tombtrader]

I agree although they have improved a LOT, especially European markets.

Unfortuneatly, Ninja have no plans to impliment range bars.

[Todd Morgan]

Hi Tomb,

How are you finding the Esig beta overall. Any glaring problems?

Thanks

The new eSignal beta has Range Bars - this is currently the only package that runs MTP on Range Bars.

[tombtrader]

No major probs except one. It freezes a few times a day. There is a list of problems on the beta site.

[Steve Griffiths]

Unfortuneatly, Ninja have no plans to impliment range bars.

Hi Tom,

That is not correct........ here is a quote from NinjaTrader on the question of Range Bars " Yes, range bars will be in a future release but I can't tell you when "

So they are on their way in NinjaTrader.

This is partly why we are working with NinjaTrader, because they are such a good company and very responsive to customer requests and get things done quickly. which is unusual in this industry .....

Thanks

Steve

[tombtrader]

Glad to hear that because when I emailed John Gramola at Ninja he said they didn't support them and there was no indication from him that they would.

I was one of the original beta testers for Ninja when Ray Deux was developing Ninja and he has done a great job.

[kh_model]

A program called MultiCharts has been developed which appears to be a "clone" of Tradestation, and although not every feature is complete at this time, most Tradestation features are present and others will be added in the future. Several desireable features such as "Rangebars" are available in MultiCharts even though they are not currently available in Tradestation. Has anyone tried to run the MTP .eld and .dll files for Tradestation in MultiCharts?

[tombtrader]

MultiCharts cannot run protected elds, unfortuneately.

There are a huge number of MC users who have migrated from tradestation to get all the datafeeds that MC can use.

It would be great if MTP was available for this platform. The existing MTP elds could be ported over to MC in 5 minutes as MC uses a clone of easylanguage.

[stevej]

MultiCharts cannot run protected elds, unfortuneately.

There are a huge number of MC users who have migrated from tradestation to get all the datafeeds that MC can use.

It would be great if MTP was available for this platform. The existing MTP elds could be ported over to MC in 5 minutes as MC uses a clone of easylanguage.

Neither, unfortunately, does it have 'Radar Screen' so not really much use.

[Steve Griffiths]

MultiCharts cannot run protected elds, unfortuneately.

There are a huge number of MC users who have migrated from tradestation to get all the datafeeds that MC can use.

It would be great if MTP was available for this platform. The existing MTP elds could be ported over to MC in 5 minutes as MC uses a clone of easylanguage.

Hi Tombtrader.

And there lies the problem, As far as TradeStation is concerned Multicharts is a "rip off" and pirated version of thier program (their words not mine), so we (MTPredictor) cannot be seen to be working with a company that has basically stolen and then cloned TradeStation....

Steve

[tombtrader]

Steve,

I think its a case of Gimbels bad mouthing Macys.

MultiCharts is a program written newly from the ground up. There is no TradeStation code involved at all. In fact, MC is still being developed and extended. True, its not as robust as TradeStation but TS rubbishing a competitor untruthfully is not too elegant in my book.

MC can use almost any data feed and has more charting capabilities.

MC has written a trader programming language that is 95% compatible with easylanguage. It is not the only TS competitor that has done this. It means that most easylanguage indicators and systems can be cut and paste into MC.

From a developers point of view, TS elds are easily hacked and code written is wasily stolen. MC on the other hand compiles its indicators much more robustly and I have not heard of any being hacked.

I have no affiliation with MC other than being a happy customer for about 7 years just as I am a happy customer of MTP and would be a happier one if I could use MTP in MC.

[qitrader]

This past week, I was looking at range bars using Amibroker and to my amazement, I see many good trading opportunities in hindsight. However, in replay mode which simulates real time, you need to be as fast as lightning to be able to pull the trigger on most setups. Immediately, I already knew this was not my style of trading. Yes, the profits are huge if all trades were taken, but the question is are we going to be in all those trades. What about slippage? Or missing the good trades and entering on the bad ones? How will this affect the psychology? Can I make a decision in less than a minute? After 4 losses in a row, are we going to keep on trading?. They are even faster than a 1 minute time frame. I guess I'm just not that good as a micro scalper. IMO, I prefer to stick to my position day trades and trade less frequently since they give me ample of time to make my decisions and are less stressful. I'm also a very young trader and even I couldn't do it. But oh well, I just don't have the edge here. Maybe others do. I would like to hear some real experiences using real money from some of you using range bars.